John has already explained elsewhere the nature of gun ownership in Greece, where I am as well. Here is a short version, to put the story that follows in some context.


Guns with rifled barrels can be owned for two reasons:

a) Self-protection to those who can demostrate need (e.g. those who have been attacked in the past, or those whose jobs justify it, i.e. Judges, Politicians, etc). This is a very limited category, not exactly one that the average Joe and Jane can put themselves in.

b) Sport Bullseye, Practical shooting and any other shooting disciplines. Here anyone aged above 18 can apply, but there are many severe restrictions, e.g. membership in a club for a year, participation to a minimum of 12 matches (sounds easy, but what if you're away from the country for extended periods, e.g. if you study abroad, or if you're busy on weekends, when all matches are held?).

In both cases, the owner can have a limited amount of ammunition at home, typically around 200 rounds for sporting use (in some areas it might be as high as 500), but much less than that for self-defense, although these numbers may depend on the individual policies of local police chiefs.

For sporting licencees, failing to take part in enough games for a year can mean that you have to sell your guns immediately or risk losing them.

Oddly, there are much fewer restrictions on smoothbores. There's no limit on ammunition, nor do you have to depend on your club for ammo (as pistol users do), you can buy ammunition from any store selling hunting goods. Shotguns have a minimum overall length and must be registered within, I believe, 7 days from purchase, and they must be re-registered annually (in case the police misplace their records, I suppose...). There is no limit to the amount of shotguns you can buy. There is a maximum magazine capacity for shotshells (2), but only when the gun is used for hunting, so a plug is screwed in place when necessary, and removed when you get back home.

(if you guessed that all this may be because hunters have a much stronger lobby in this country, compared to sporting shooters, you are right...)


The reason I list all of the above is because I think that it defines our gun culture. Unlike the US, where The Right of People to Keep and Bear Arms is reasoned on safety/security grounds, in both personal and social levels, here it is always argued on in terms of either sports or hunting.

Personally, this makes me sick. I live in an area where gun ownership is plentiful, but nearly all guns are illegal. The reasoning behind the ownership of these guns may partially lay in trivial arguments (like pride, and/or showing off), but the primary and original purpose is the same of that of our friends across the Atlantic: self-protection.

Cretans, the inhabitants of the largest of Greece's many islands, do not see themselves as islanders. Why should they? Many of them live in altitudes 2000 feet and up. Unlike other islands in Greece, where fishing is the most common occupation, Crete's traditional means of living was farming. Especially the south of the island is made up of small villages, joined by a rather basic road network. As recently as a couple of decades ago, there was only one telephone per village (usually at the coffee place, not with shared lines).

All this meant that, in those days, calling the police when something went wrong, simply wasn't an option. People had to find means to defend themselves at home, and goat or sheep farmers, warking across the mountains, have to carry their means of protection with them - and we're not talking about cellphones. Even today, the nearest policeman from my current location is 15 minutes away, and that's assuming he knows how to find me when I call for help, because here streets are neither named nor numbered, but that's another story.

Even worse, on various occasions (going as far back as the Turkish occupation) attemts were made to disarm the population. The terrain and isolation made this impossible, but the most lasting effect of this was that, to this day, the populations see any attempts by police or politicians to take their guns away in the same light of that of past oppressive regimes. Many refuse to go through the process to get legal guns, despite the advantages (cheaper ammo, for one thing), because they stubbornly refuse to have to comply with something titled "Mandatory".

This is frustrating to people like me. I see the rights hunters enjoy, compared to competitive shooters, and it pains me to know that, as a group, handgun owners are so many here - if only the rest, the illegal ones, could stand up, show themselves and "mend their ways". Even with things being the way they are now, Crete is the origin of 6 out of 12 Greek National Practical Shooting Team members (and they did pretty well two weeks ago in Austria, by the way). Greece was in the 5th overall place in the world in IPSC status in 2008 (4th in terms of membership) - not bad for a country of 10 million people. We have so much potential, but instead we have to endure a rediculous array of restrictions.

I happen to like competitive shooting, but that is besides the point. The main issue is that self-protection, that is the most obvious use of handguns, the one most of them were actually designed and built for, is not one that we can claim to, in order to own a gun (unless something truly bad has already happened - or unless we become so rich that... we can claim to need one, I suppose on the grounds that we have made many enemies to get where we are...). If we are forced to defend ourselves with these 'sporting guns', they will most likely be taken away from us, assuming, of course, that we survive the event.

I suppose we could then argue that, since we were attacked, we are entitled to a self-protection license...

Thanks for the post, I love to learn about other countries laws and gun culture.

thank you
that was interesting

The same goes for me as well. I realize I likely will not be able to visit more of my own country, much less visit other countries within my lifetime. As a result, learning about other countries, especially as it relates to firearms, policies, and history, enlarges my world.

My thanks to those who share their information.

Rekladan, That is a very well written and informative post! I can feel your frustration with the regulations. It is a darn shame that normal everyday folks have to break the law to have a means of self protection. It is an prime example of laws that force the law abiding to be law breakers. I wish that I could be of some help in the matter.

Best of Luck!
Rich

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"There Is No Greater High Than Defeating Armed Felons" Rich-D

Thank you Rich, a lot of thought went in it because I've been meaning to write it for a while now.

The people, in this case are largely at fault, because they don't actually have to break the law, they simply deem the legal process to be ridiculous (which, we all agree, is true) and decide to bypass it.

My argument is that if they decided to grind their teeth, wait a year and stay legal (owning only two centerfire pistols, and sorry, no Glock 18s), then they and we could form a voting group that no politician could ignore.

This is actually NOT a party-political issue here, the two major parties of the country don't debate this issue at all. This is quite encouraging, to me, but it means nothing if we don't make our voices heard.

It's great to get an international perspective on gun issues. It also makes me as an American appreciate what we have here..and be willing to fight not to lose it.

One correction to Rekladan's post. Those who are privileged enough to have "self-protection" carrying permits, aren't allowed to have as many rounds as they want. Usually, they are limited to 25-50 rounds, and can only ask for a buying permit for more, if they show evidences that they've shot them. Such evidences are notes from the shooting range, showing that they've fired so many rounds.

Now considering that in order to get proficient with one's firearm and to maintain that proficiency, you have to fire at least 200 rounds per month, you can understand that these folks are either being going back and forth to their local police station to have buying permits issued, or they are also registered as competitive shooters, so they can get ammo from their shooting club. Or of course, since only very wealthy ones have those carrying permits, they just make sure they buy ammo, outside the legal channels.

It's interesting how legislators do not understand a simple fact.

All laws restricting gun ownership affect only the legal owners, not the outlaws. Outlaws live outside the law, so no matter how harsh these laws are, they criminals are not affected by them.

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John Caradimas
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John, Now why can't the politicians/legislators understand that?

I know a few of them, and they're not particularly concerned about ammo... because they also shoot competitively, so they have plenty of 'spare' ammo to use in their self-protection pistol, as John describes.

But here's the fun part: technically, this is illegal, too! No idea why.

Another correction in my first post - since I wrote it, I've learned that shotgunning laws have changed, and now there is some more paperwork involved, plus they have to get the gun registered before buying it, not after. Which is in-line with what pistol owners have had to do to begin with.

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