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Aguila Blanca
28th February 2010, 18:58
Please discuss:

http://my.att.net/s/editorial.dll?fromspage=ch/c.htm&categoryid=&only=y&bfromind=7775&eeid=7148733&_sitecat=1522&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=5&ck=&ch=ne

Buzz and bullets: Gun fans cheer Starbucks' policy

Published: 2/28/10, 3:45 PM EDT
By GREG BLUESTEIN

(AP) - Dale Welch recently walked into a Starbucks in Virginia, handgun strapped to his waist, and ordered a banana Frappuccino with a cinnamon bun. He says the firearm drew a double-take from at least one customer, but not a peep from the baristas.

...

I zeroed in on this idiotic statement:

Ralph Fascitelli of Washington Ceasefire, an advocacy group that seeks to reduce gun violence, said allowing guns in coffeehouses robs residents of "societal sanctuaries."

"People go to Starbucks for an escape, just so they can get peace," Fascitelli said. "But people walk in with open-carry guns and it destroys the tranquility."
I'd like to know HOW it destroys the "tranquility." Police walk into restaurants and coffee shops every day wearing guns and nobody panics. If someone walks in waving a gun around and shooting at people ... yeah, that would be a bit disruptive. But if a guy (or gal) walks in with a pistol worn on their belt in a nice leather or kydex holster (just like the detectives wear), why should that upset anyone? Around here, except for the fact that open carry isn't allowed even with a permit I suspect most people seeing such a person would assume it muct be a police officer or security officer and go back to reading Elle.

Of course, it would destroy Mr. Fascitelli's tranquility. He's an outsider, recently arrived in Washington (state). He's the doofus who tried to have people arrested at a recent public hearing on a proposed bill, and was upset when the state tropper on duty informed him that nobody was breaking the law. In other words, Mr. Fascitelli is a hoplophobe.

Rich-D
1st March 2010, 08:03
I was never what one would call an advocate of open carry. In fact, unless on a crime scene, or some other extenuating circumstance existed, I would chastise my detectives and the off duty uniform officers on my department for doing so. I felt that it was a form of boosting!

As a civilian, although in an open carry state I never have open carried except in the woods. However, I appreciate open carry, as it protects us from laws covering printing.

However, folks like Mr. Fascitelli are prodding me into taking a stand to advocate for open carry.

Aguila Blanca
1st March 2010, 08:58
If more people would open carry where it is legal, people who aren't "gunnies" might become more accustomed to the reality that carrying a gun does not automatically mean that the person is a criminal.

It helps to remember that in the old days of the "wild west," honest men wore their six guns in open holsters on their belts. The people who carried concealed were the pimps, gamblers and card sharks, and concealed carry was looked down upon as being a sneaky way to carry, practiced by a less-than-desirable element of society. I haven't researched it, but I suspect that the origins of many states' concealed carry laws derive from this perception.

Rich-D
1st March 2010, 11:02
I should have mentioned that I served in NJ. Which is not an Open Carry State.
Returning to my home state of PA after retiring, which is an Open Carry State.

The main reason why I left NJ, was because of their oppressive gun laws.

Aguila Blanca
1st March 2010, 16:38
Heck, I thought NJ was a "no carry" state. Isn't NJ one of the states that nominally provides for concealed carry licenses/permits, but only three people have ever been issued one in the entire history of the state?

At least NJ respects the FOPA with regard to transport of firearms through the state, though ... unlike NY City, and the Greater NY/NJ Transit Authority.

Rich-D
1st March 2010, 20:46
NJ is a very tough State on Gun Rights and Carry Permits. If you are not a political insider, the chances of obtaining a gun permit are very slim.

Speaking of Interstate Transit Authorities, there is a real quirk in the law. If a Transit Officer makes an arrest on Transit property or Port Authority property in Philadelphia, they book the offender in NJ, although the violation took place in PA. They do so because NJ Laws are stricter and the Courts more harsh!

Dial 1911 for Help
1st March 2010, 21:17
Uh, how is that even legal? How do courts have jurisdiction outside the boundaries of the entity of which they're a part?

Rich-D
2nd March 2010, 09:54
Back when I commanded the Major Crimes Unit For Camden NJ, A PATCO Transit Officer came in with an arrest made on the Transit Authority Subway Platform underneath center city Philadelphia.

I informed him that we could not handle the case and to go back to Philly. However, I received a call from our Director of Public Safety and our Prosecutor's Office, informing me I was wrong. It made no sense to me either, but the suspect was convicted in a Camdem NJ Court.

pdangeruss
2nd March 2010, 11:32
The DRPA is a "public corporate instrumentality of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the State of New Jersey." N.J.STAT.ANN. § 32:3-2, PA.STAT.ANN. ***. 36, § 3503. But it is not an "arm" of either state. Nor is it vested with attributes of state sovereignty. Peters v. DRPA, 16 F.3d 1346, 1351-52 (3d Cir. 1994). The DRPA's powers and duties are framed entirely by the Compact.
Article IV(e) of the Compact provides the DRPA Commissioners the right to "appoint, hire or employ ... agents and employees, as it may require for the performance of its duties, by contract or otherwise, and fix and determine their qualifications, duties and compensation." N.J.STAT.ANN. § 32:3-5, PA.STAT.ANN. ***. 36, § 3503. Under Article IV(e), the DRPA maintains a Bureau of Police to protect the public and DRPA property. The Bureau consists of patrol officers, sergeants, and corporals, who are accorded "all of the powers ... and all of the immunities conferred by law on police officers or municipal police officers in ... the State of New Jersey and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania." N.J.STAT.ANN. § 32:4-6, PA.STAT. ANN. ***. 36, § 3504.1. The DRPA Compact itself does not expressly grant DRPA employees collective bargaining rights. Nor does the Compact impose a duty on the DRPA's management to bargain collectively with unions.


Most all of the mass transit and port authorities have multi-jurisdictional agreements/statutes, for matters that happen on or in the immediate area their properties or areas of responsibility.

Dial 1911 for Help
2nd March 2010, 18:07
Most all of the mass transit and port authorities have multi-jurisdictional agreements/statutes, for matters that happen on or in the immediate area their properties or areas of responsibility.

That seems like a violation of due process, or some legal mumbo jumbo, if it allows the government to venue shop to maximize the penalty. I would think an accused could say that he was denied equal protection if anyone had EVER been tried in the more lenient jurisdiction.

Rich-D
5th March 2010, 06:31
A Fox News Report Titled: Starbucks in The Crossfire!

A 15 second commercial proceeds the 2.42 Minute Video.

Click For Video! (http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/former-homeless-man-wins-250k-in-lotto-18444058#video=18461153)