No Defense in UK! ?

[Old Fashioned]

An ex UK soldier found a shotgun and turned it in at the police station. He was immediately arrested and charged with possession of a gun, tried, and convicted. He faces five years in prison. He was told there is no defense for having a gun and his intention is irrelevant.

http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/news/Ex-soldier-faces-jail-handing-gun/article-1509082-detail/article.html

[Dial 1911 for Help]

I was on another forum and an English guy set me straight on the inner workings of their legal system. The step which is done is that he's determined to have committed the acts described in the law. Now the judge must "record the conviction" and pass down a sentence. There are minimum sentencing guidelines, but the judge is free to bypass them in exceptional circumstances, and even to refrain from "recording the conviction". If he does that, the guy won't even have a conviction on his record.

[Rich-D]

That is a lot of IF's! And even if they all come out in his favor, who pays for his attorney, lost wages and mental anguish! It is one of the most outlandish applications of law that I have ever encountered. Applying the letter of the law is completely subversive to the spirt of the law.

So the people in Briton must ignore firearms and leave them where they are accessible to children and criminals, while they go and contact the authorities. Outlandish is not strong enough of a word for this miscarriage of justice!

[Old Fashioned]

It seems that there was a complete lack of common sense at the police station that he took the firearm to. They (the police) could have chosen not to file charges and thanked the man for turning the shotgun in but obviously they chose to go for the glory of charging and getting a conviction rather than serving the good of the community.

[John]

If the heads of the country have no common sense, do you really expect the simple policemen to have some??? :p

[Dial 1911 for Help]

If the heads of the country have no common sense, do you really expect the simple policemen to have some??? :p
Um, yeah. Aren't common people with jobs almost always smarter, wiser and in possession of better values than government leaders? I mean after all, if they had skills other than bowing poorly, why would they have chosen politics instead of a profession where their life would be worthwhile?

[Old Fashioned]

Ha, Ha. Good point John. To answer your question, yes, I would expect the policeman to use some common sense. If I had been that policeman I would have informed the man that technically he was guilty of a crime under the law but that I recognized that he was attempting to do the right thing and would not charge him. I would then have cautioned him that in the future if he found a firearm again to simply report it and refrain from picking it up so as to protect himself from any legal consequences. Often times government leaders at high levels deal in theories but local policemen deal in reality on a daily basis. For that reason I would expect the police to use some common sense, not that they do, but one can always hope.

[Rekladan]

If I get this right, the man was supposed to leave the gun where it was, dial 999 (instead of 911 in the US) and tell the responding officer what he found and where...

Instead, he now has to hope for a sympathetic sentencing judge, otherwise he'll a jail sentence and a criminal record... nice. I know of several other ridiculous firearms-related stories from the UK, but this is... original!

[d90king]

One of the saddest stories of stupidity I can remember in a long time. Common sense, must be something that escapes the minds of any of the officials involved in this mess.

[allforguns]

I tell ya, I am amazed.

[Aguila Blanca]

Just proves the old saying, "No good deed shall go unpunished."

I thought even under English law it was necessary to prove intent to violate the law in order to get a conviction. It appears I was wrong.

[Dial 1911 for Help]

I don't know. People are always saying "Ignorance of the law is no excuse." So according to them at least, intent is not a vital element. Not saying I agree with those people necessarily.

[Aguila Blanca]

Perhaps the resident barrister will chime in here with an explanation. In short, the legal principal is mens rea -- the Latin term for "guilty mind." From that most infallible of sources, Wikipedia:

In criminal law, mens rea – the Latin term for "guilty mind"[1] – is usually one of the necessary elements of a crime. The standard common law test of criminal liability is usually expressed in the Latin phrase, actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea, which means "the act does not make a person guilty unless the mind be also guilty". Thus, in jurisdictions with due process, there must be an actus reus accompanied by some level of mens rea to constitute the crime with which the defendant is charged (see the technical requirement of concurrence). The Criminal Law does not usually apply to a person who has acted with the absence of mental fault; this is the general rule.

Entire article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea

[DoubleTap45]

This is NOT Conan-Doyle's two-fisted no-nonsense England. The mighty Empiah and all that rot. In England you are NOT ALLOWED TO DEFEND YOURSELF!!!! LEARN THAT or you will find yourself in jail.

About 15 years ago I was a consultant for Prodigy. I like to read the posts on the 2nd Amendment board. One member was waiting for her girlfriend to come home from London. Whilst on the Tube she was accosted by some greasy thug apparently with intent to commit rape. She scared him off with a penknife that had about a 1" blade.

The miscreant ran to the Bobbies. They arrested HER. She was charged with "vigilantism" and the lowlife was granted full immunity in order to testify against this "menace to society". She called the Embassy. After many calls back and fort she was stuffed into a coach seat and stamped "Persona non grata" as if she'd ever want to return.

If you are attacked you are ordered to assume the "victim position" (fetal position) and scream for help. ANY attempt to beat back your attacker and you'll get what she got. As the French say "It is to weep."

-Ray

[Dial 1911 for Help]

If you are attacked you are ordered to assume the "victim position" (fetal position) and scream for help. ANY attempt to beat back your attacker and you'll get what she got. As the French say "It is to weep."

Why would the French weep over that? As you probably know, they can't even go to war if the white flag factory is shut down.