US Attorney General - 8/24/2004

[Old Fashioned]

Came across something interesting today. The US Attorney General was asked for an opinion as to if the 2nd Amendment pertained to an individual or a collective right and issued a memorandum opinion on 8/24/2004 stating it was of the opinion that it was an individual right. Included in the opinion is a discussion of the prefatory language "A Well Regulated Militia, Being Necessary to the Security of a Free State" and why that does not mean a collective right. This is a link to a PDF of the entire memorandum. Interesting that the US Attorney General took that view in 2004 but took no action regarding gun bans in Chicago, DC, and else where.

http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.pdf

[BluegrazzGuy]

I recall when this came out. If I recall correctly, it relied somewhat heavily on previous research done for the Senate, specifically a committee chaired by Sen. Hatch of Utah. Of course, Heller resolves the question as to whether it is an individual or collective right -- at least as far as the federal government is concerned. We should know in the next year or so whether the amendment also protects against state infringement.

[Aguila Blanca]

This memorandum was issued shortly before John Ashcroft left office. IMHO John Ashcroft was a jerk in a lot of ways, but he did believe in the 2nd Amendment and I have to give him credit for leaving this as a legacy of his term in office. It is meticulously researched and documented, and should be considered a definitive analysis. But, of course, the anti-gun factions prefer to pretend it doesn't exist.

Interestingly, the memo was originally posted directly on the DOJ's web site, and it remained there while Ashcroft was in office. Not long after he departed, it mysteriously disappeared. Fortunately, a number of pro-gun activists had already made copies by then, so it isn't lost. It is WELL worth reading.

So is the preceding report prepared for the Senate. This DOJ report, though, is far more in-delth than the Senate report of a few years earlier. The DOJ memo almost certainly looked at the Senate report for background, but it went much deeper into research, precedent, related commentary by the men who wrote the 2nd Amendment, and analysis.

The Senate report can be read here: http://www.guncite.com/journals/senrpt/senrpt.html

[Dial 1911 for Help]

Ashcroft. John Ashcroft. John Mitchell was Nixon's AG from '69-'72. And yes, Ashcroft was a putz in a lot of ways but at least he got this one right. OTOH, it was during his watch that Bean was argued, so we won't give him too much credit.

[d90king]

Came across something interesting today. The US Attorney General was asked for an opinion as to if the 2nd Amendment pertained to an individual or a collective right and issued a memorandum opinion on 8/24/2004 stating it was of the opinion that it was an individual right. Included in the opinion is a discussion of the prefatory language "A Well Regulated Militia, Being Necessary to the Security of a Free State" and why that does not mean a collective right. This is a link to a PDF of the entire memorandum. Interesting that the US Attorney General took that view in 2004 but took no action regarding gun bans in Chicago, DC, and else where.

http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.pdf

He has since stepped away from that statement after Heller but I believe it was done only for political gain... He still believes it in his heart as a progressive...

[Aguila Blanca]

:facepalm:

Ashcroft. John Ashcroft. John Mitchell was Nixon's AG from '69-'72. And yes, Ashcroft was a putz in a lot of ways but at least he got this one right. OTOH, it was during his watch that Bean was argued, so we won't give him too much credit.
You are correct, of course. I'll edit my post, if it's still open for me to edit.

... Well, it's not open for me to edit. Would a kindly moderator (if that's not an oxymoron) be good enough to repair my faux pas?

[Dial 1911 for Help]

:facepalm:


You are correct, of course. I'll edit my post, if it's still open for me to edit.

... Well, it's not open for me to edit. Would a kindly moderator (if that's not an oxymoron) be good enough to repair my faux pas?
Not that big a deal.

[Aguila Blanca]

Not that big a deal.
Easy for you to say. It's MY age that's showing ...

Most of you probably aren't old enough to even remember John Mitchell. I don't know where I came up with that one.

[Skytower]

After reading the senate report, any doubts to my opinions and position on the 2nd amendment have been completely erased. I can see why this report is not widely known; It is very damaging to the anti-gun position. It removes the props from under their arguements and completely negates further need for debate, even though it asks for it.
If you have any anti's in your circle, this report would be the best way to reprogram their thought process. That is, if they're thinking;)

Regards,
Dave

[Dial 1911 for Help]

Easy for you to say. It's MY age that's showing ...

Most of you probably aren't old enough to even remember John Mitchell. I don't know where I came up with that one.
I remember him, although I was only 9 or 10 at the time. Guess I have politics in the blood or something.

[John]

Easy for you to say. It's MY age that's showing ...

I edited it for you old man!! :p

[Aguila Blanca]

Thank you, you young whipper-snapper.

[Patriotic]

Old Fashioned, I read your link and what a powerful document it is. There should never be any question on a citizen’s right to own and bear arms. Maybe I should send a copy to Eric Holder for what good it would do. Unfortunately I guess, legislative opinions change with each new Congress and our only link to maintaining the meaning of our Constitution rests with the SC made up of political appointees.

[DoubleTap45]

school that legal PUNK on the "full faith and credit clause"!!!!!! IF properly applied it would be Mayor Doomsberg's worst nightmare come true. He'd have NO recourse to disallow CCW permits from ANY STATE!!! I love that image. ;)

Ray

[daveohno]

I don't believe the new Attorney General of the US would agree with it and that's just the beginning of our troubles.

[Aguila Blanca]

I don't believe the new Attorney General of the US would agree with it and that's just the beginning of our troubles.
This is why RKBA advocates should save their own copies of both of these reports. The current AG may not like the 2nd Amendment, but at this point he is stuck with a Supreme Court ruling that the 2nd Amendment DOES protect an individual right. On top of the Heller ruling, he can't refute the extensive documentation provided by these two reports, because they were meticulously researched and documented. They cite historical evidence that Mr. Holder may dislike to his heart's (dis)content, but which he simply cannot refute. I'm sure the present administration would be overjoyed if neither of these documents had seen the light of day, but ... they did. People have seen them. We owe it to ourselves and to posterity to ensure that these documents don't mysteriously "disappear."

[DoubleTap45]

Gura is taking it to the cesspool of Illinois (Chicago)!!! He has a case that just may FORCE not only Illinois but other cities to loosen up and even streamline their licensing procedures. Saw it on Beck. There's a GREAT chapter in his new book on the Second Amendment.

-Ray