HI - Banning folding knives?!?!?!

[John]

Is that true? Is the State of Hawaii planning to ban folding knives? I read it in pagenine.org and I find it totally idiotic.

[d90king]

This must be what you are referring to.
http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=72&Itemid=1
In short it appears to be one of the most ridiculous things I have read. Sounds like when the UK wanted to ban fire extinguishers...http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3525380.eceo.

[Frank]

The good news is the the Hawaiian senator who introduced the bill comes right out and says that (1) he did so only in accordance with his policy of introducing bills upon request of a constituent; (2) he opposes it; (3) he won't push it and doesn't expect it to go anywhere. They have, I believe, talked about banning knives, or at least having them in public, in the UK. And AFAIK, folding knives that lock open are banned in the UK and, perhaps, some other countries.

[Aguila Blanca]

The good news is the the Hawaiian senator who introduced the bill comes right out and says that (1) he did so only in accordance with his policy of introducing bills upon request of a constituent; (2) he opposes it; (3) he won't push it and doesn't expect it to go anywhere. They have, I believe, talked about banning knives, or at least having them in public, in the UK. And AFAIK, folding knives that lock open are banned in the UK and, perhaps, some other countries.
That's the GOOD news? Sheesh, what's the BAD news?

A state senator just introduces bills because a constituent asks him to -- without any regard for whether or not it's a good idea or makes any sense whatsoever? And then opposes his own bills?

Good God! We're doomed.

[kenhwind]

Good God! We're doomed.
Too much Pineapple juice IMO

[John]

Too many margaritas!

If I was an American, I would certainly be worried sick with such senators!!!

[kenhwind]

If I was an American, I would certainly be worried sick with such senators!!!
Some of us are, that's for sure.

[Frank]

...That's the GOOD news? Sheesh, what's the BAD news? A state senator just introduces bills because a constituent asks him to -- without any regard for whether or not it's a good idea or makes any sense whatsoever? And then opposes his own bills? You'd be surprised how often that happens. Every year, in pretty much most legislatures, a bunch of bills get introduced and just sit on the shelf to die a natural death. It all comes under the heading of "doing a favor for someone who helps keep me in office so I don't have to get a real job."

Consider that even most serious legislation doesn't come initially from our elected legislators. Most bills are in fact written by constituents or "special interest groups." I've participated in writing a bunch myself -- a couple that have actually been enacted.

Let's say my client thinks it would be swell if we had a law about X that says Y. I might then go to a meeting of some trade or affinity association my client belongs to and see if I can get some other folks to agree that it would be a good idea. If I can get some traction, we'll talk to our lobbyist to try to identify a legislator who might be willing to introduce and carry our bill and go and float the idea with him (or her). If we get a possibly favorable response from a legislator, we'll go and write the bill.

Of course it's usually more complicated and convoluted than that. But that's the general idea. The point is that most legislation doesn't come initially from the legislature. It comes from the outside world. And also everyone knows that most of it isn't going anywhere.

[kenhwind]

Let's say my client thinks it would be swell if we had a law about X that says Y.
Isn't this how the Sullivan Act became law in NY State?

[Frank]

...Isn't this how the Sullivan Act became law in NY State? It may have been. It's how most things become law -- good or bad. It's probably also how the various "shall issue" law came into being. Legislators usually don't think these things up for themselves.

I think it was Bismark who said, "Anyone who likes law or sausage should watch neither being made."

[kenhwind]

It's probably also how the various "shall issue" law came into being. Legislators usually don't think these things up for themselves.
I believe that, that is the way it happened here in Florida.

[d90king]

"doing a favor for someone who helps keep me in office so I don't have to get a real job."


That is sig line material. Sadly it is woefully true...

[BluegrazzGuy]

Frank's description of the bill writing process is not limited to any particular state. I've seen the same thing here and have participated by drafting and reviewing bills and testifying in committee hearings. A great number originate from either a special interest group or an agency of the government. A lot of bills never get a hearing and die a silent death. Still, I would think a state senator or representative would have to be sympathetic to the bill before submitting it. I think the Hawaiian senator perhaps became embarrassed when the stupidity of the bill became public.

[KCShooter]

I think it was Bismark who said, "Anyone who likes law or sausage should watch neither being made."
I've never heard that before, but I love that quote!

[rjm713]

I'm probably wrong but I always thought the Sullivan Act was written by Boss Tweed and left purposely vague so they could nail political opponents with it if they used a straight razor. (in common use when the act was written I believe). Ralph

[Frank]

I'm probably wrong but I always thought the Sullivan Act was written by Boss Tweed...There may be something to that. I do believe that Tammany Hall was involved.

[Eddie]

Legislators usually don't think these things up for themselves.

That requires the ability to think for oneself.