Who Is To Blame?

[Old Fashioned]

It's obvious that the gun control community think that their time has arrived with Mr. Obama as President and Mr. Biden as Vice President. The fact that they have put gun control on the back burner is only temporary. But, who is really to blame for this? Keep in mind that almost all politicians have two goals that take priority over all else; to get elected and to get re-elected. John Sigler, President of the NRA, has an article in the May 2009 issue of American Hunter magazine in which he says "It is inexcusable that 4 million NRA members must carry the load for 80 million gun owners and 20 million hunters-and it's time we said so". So I say again, who is really to blame for the threat of the gun control people? I respectfully sugest that gun owners and hunters have only themselves to blame. I realize that probably all of the members of this forum are members of the NRA or a comparable organization but 4 million out of 100 million? What can we do about this? How can we change that ratio substantially and quickly? Why are there only 4 million NRA members out of 100 million gun owners and hunters?

[d90king]

I agree that we need greater participation in NRA and GOA and many other lobby groups.

I hate to say it, but that is only a small part of the problem, PEOPLE need to be more active in who THEY elect into office. This includes ALL local elections, judges, DA's, AG and sheriffs etc... You never know when that judge that YOU elect moves up through the ranks...

The NRA turns some off because they are weak in much of what they do. They choose their battles wisely, if not we would have far fewer states with laws that take away your rights on a daily basis...

[Frank]

1] The NRA is the most effective RKBA organization. They have the largest membership of any of them, and they do the best that they can with that membership base. Politics is strictly a numbers game. If the NRA had more members, it could be that much more effective. And those folks who complain about the NRA's so called failures need to tell us who did, or could have, actually accomplished more.

[2] Facts of political life -- politicians don't listen to individual voters and they don't listen to or care much about reason. They care about numbers. One hundred phone calls or letters in support of or against something are better than 10. Ten thousand would be a lot better yet. It doesn't matter what the caller or writer says is the reason to support or oppose the thing. All that matters is the number on each side of the question.

[3] An NRA with 4 million members gets attention. An NRA with 5 million will get more, and an NRA with 10 million members could get some real serious attention. As annoying as the NRA can be, it's in our interests to see it grow and prosper.

[4] Politicians aren't swayed by fine arguments, logical demonstrations or even facts. They are swayed by how many voters (and potential voters and contributors) line up on each side of the question. They are influenced by political and economic power.

[5] The NRA is at the forefront of shooter education and safety training. Their program for certifying instructors in a variety of disciplines helps make competent training more readily available to the public. And their "Refuse to be a Victim" program is excellent.

[d90king]

To me it is much deeper than that Frank. The reason we need lobby groups to protect the rights we already have, is because people do not get involved in electing the right people. To often we look at a letter next to a name and just pull the lever based upon that letter.

Going back to the posters numbers of 100 million gun owners... That makes up almost the entire voting populous. If each gun owner did their civic duty at election time it would insulate us from much of what we go through today in trying to protect the rights we already have.

I agree we all should support the groups that promote our beliefs but to me that is only a small part of it. Money only buys you so much.... The rest lies in the hands of the voters.

Look at your home state on prop 8, they vote against what one would believe would be a no brainer their. However those same voters elect people that are against many of our basic liberties. They choose to thumb their nose at the feds on issues that "they" deem important yet those same elected officials want to take away other basic rights.

Our forefathers wanted delegates who respected "the Republic", not self serving lifelong power hungry politicians...

IMHO the power is still in the hands of the "people"... We are the one electing the Al Frankins of the world. I think that sums it up in a nutshell... Who's next Barney or Tom Cruise or maybe Clooney.

[Old Fashioned]

I agree, the NRA is not perfect. Some times their solicitations for more donations get frustrating, and yes, they pick their fights. But lobbying to protect the 2nd Amendment or prevent unreasonable gun controls costs money. The gun control groups have George Sorros holding out a blank check to them. I also agree that we as gun owners have to pay more attention to who we elect and we have to vote. I mention the NRA because it probably has the highest national recognition and I doubt that you will find many politicians that do not know what the NRA is. The NRA does a fine job of informing us of candidates voting records in relation to firearms. However, the NRA cannot go into the voting booth and cast a vote. We, as gun owners have to do that. The NRA acts as a lobby to protect our right to keep and bear arms. The more members they have the bigger clout they have with politicians. What puzzles me is, again, why there are about 80 million gun owner and about 20 million hunters and only 4 million NRA members. I go to a local gun store that has an indoor range about once a week to shoot. I think every employee at the store is a member of the NRA and has a CWP yet, when you look around the store, there is a complete absense of any literature or signs promoting membership. Why do manufacturers not insert a flyer into their firearm shipping container along with the operating and safety instructions suggesting membership in the NRA or GOA? Again, who is really to blame for the successes of gun control groups? I, for one, will ask why there is nothing in that gun store promoting NRA membership the next time I go there. Lets hear some other opinions on this problem.

[kenhwind]

Unfortunately there is a large number of gun owners who are convinced that the Gov't cannot or will not ban their guns. Some are inclined to think its only going to be someone else's guns.

On the other hand if all gunowners donated $1.00. I donate when I have funds, as I'm sure you do too.
The over under crowd don't seem to care about the AR guys, so its not my gun they want etc.

But as Frank posted, I do send my thought or express my views to my elected officials, especially on the Federal level. Florida is pretty much pro gun, but if an issue surfaces again I do what I can.

[d90king]

At my local shooting club, NRA membership is mandatory. They even have a deal on a "life" membership for $500. In my opinion it is money well spent.

I think my main point is that supporting groups that support our rights is vital, but it is more vital that we wake up and fight for our own rights through our election process. We shouldn't rely on lobbyist groups to fight our battles.

We all need to make our elected officials aware of where we stand on issues that are important to us. If enough of the 100 million gun owners do this, we can win this fight.

[kenhwind]

At my local shooting club, NRA membership is mandatory. They even have a deal on a "life" membership for $500. In my opinion it is money well spent.
I belong to two gun ranges, one is a club by description and the other a range. NRA membership is mandatory at both. This is as it should be IMO

I think my main point is that supporting groups that support our rights is vital, but it is more vital that we wake up and fight for our own rights through our election process. We shouldn't rely on lobbyist groups to fight our battles.
We still need the lobby groups and organizations or media forms that can help disseminate the info. Well I guess I'm agreeing here. Voting is particulary important.

We all need to make our elected officials aware of where we stand on issues that are important to us. If enough of the 100 million gun owners do this, we can win this fight.
This is so true, but some just don't care or aren't interested. When I contact my electees I make sure they know that I'm a registered voter. On gun issues "I'm the NRA and I vote"

[Mannlicher]

I think that folks get the sort of government that they are willing to tolerate.

[Old Fashioned]

We talk in this country about how great freedom is. Politicians love to talk about this. Freedon is a fleeting thing. We have it only as long as we are willing to stand up and fight for it. The 2nd Amendment and RKBA is one of those freedoms and we will have it only as long as we are willing to fight for it. I agree, many gun owners have the attitude that as long as "they" are not trying to ban the type of firearm they own, they are not concerned. All gun owners have to understand that the true goal of the gun control groups is a complete ban on private gun ownership. A ban on some type of firearme or ammunition today is only the begining of a long road that ends in a complete ban on private ownership. The question is, how do we get people to understand this? We can explain about pending legislation, the NRA can raise the alarm, GOA can raise the alarm, but how do we get gun owners, as a group, to loudly and clearly express their opinion to the lawmakers regarding firearms? In the recent election, the Obama people made very effective use of the internet to drum up support. Can we take a lesson from that?

[dogdollar]

I think that folks get the sort of government that they are willing to tolerate.
In a Democracy, the people get the government they deserve -
Alexis de Tocqueville

[denton]

Most people are simply not very informed or involved. It's like the old question, how do you feel about ingnorance and apathy? I don't know and I don't care. That's the fundamental problem.

Most gun owners never realized that until Heller, 2A was dead as a door knocker in most of the country. The appellat courts had ruled that there was no individual right.

Most people don't realize that the courts have similarly invalidated the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the Constitution, now gone for about a hundred years, more or less.

Obama has fueled and lit the fire that is going to roll a lot of that back. He has reached much too far, much too fast, and people are becoming informed and involved. Tea parties, the federalist amendments, the new gun law in Montana (with Utah and Texas not far behind) are all evidence that the people want curbs on government's power.

[Chilo45]

Most people can be classified as "sheepeople" - needing to be led around by the nose, because they will not take responsibility for their actions and/or the actions of others that affect their lives.

Many of them are gun owners. It's not the fault of this president or that elected official - it is the fault of the American public for not taking responsibility and speaking their mind.

They would rather shop at Wally World and eat fast food in front of their TV's - day in and day out.

[Frank]

Another piece of the puzzle, however, is that a lot of gun owners have an unduly negative view of the NRA. Sometimes it strikes me as just some sort of a cheap excuse: tehy send too much junk mail; or Wayne LaPierre is paid too much money. Sometimes it's a matter of unreasonable expectations: the NRA should never have compromised on this, that or the other thing; or if the NRA was any good I could buy a machine gun at WalMart.

But as far as I'm concerned the NRA does good work for us in the real world. It does as much as it can given the realities of the political landscape. Things would be a whole lot worse witout them.

[Old Fashioned]

Frank, you hit the nail on the head. Too many people know only what they hear from the liberal media, gun control politicians and gun control groups. They don't know what the NRA does for police training, the national matches, youth training in safety and marksmanship and many other things. The gun control advocates want prople to think of the NRA as a bunch of nuts that always oppose any "reasonable" gun control. They call the NICS the Brady check and ignore the fact that it was the NRA that pushed for the instant check system and the Brady Campaign that fought it toothe and nail. Some how that image has to be changed by informing people of all the other things that the NRA does besides just lobbying. My comment that the NRA is not perfect simply means that any organization can always be improved upon. Any gun owner that says he or she does not join because they don't like this or that needs to reconsider their decision. The choice, to me, is simple. Sit back and do nothing and little by little lose the right to own and shoot firearms or join the NRA and give it the strength in membership that it needs. Ed Rendell said on television that the NRA was a paper tiger and that no one was afraid of the NRA and the recent election showed that. Well, who is the NRA? It's you, me, and everyone that owns a firearm for whatever reason, be it self defense, target shooting, or hunting. Even if a person is not a member of the NRA they have probably benefitted from something the NRA or other pro gun organization has done. However, just joining the NRA is not enough. Gun owners need to fire up their computers, telephones, or get out pencil and paper and let their elected officials know how they feel. After all, gun owners pay taxes too, and as taxpayers, they pay the politicians wages.

[Eddie]

Unfortunately there is a large number of gun owners who are convinced that the Gov't cannot or will not ban their guns. Some are inclined to think its only going to be someone else's guns.

On the other hand if all gunowners donated $1.00. I donate when I have funds, as I'm sure you do too.
The over under crowd don't seem to care about the AR guys, so its not my gun they want etc.

Wise words, my friend. I've witnessed this attitude in every club I have ever joined. It seems highpower shooters dislike shilouette shooters. Shilouetters don't care for action pistol shooters. The pistol shooters don't understand why someone would pay 10K for a shotgun and the shotgunners hate everyone.

The most confusing statement I've ever heard was, "If it were up to me, I would close the handgun range." This from a highpower shooter...who owns as many handguns as I do.

[kenhwind]

Gee, Eddie you must be a member at Flagler Gun Club, when there is a ricochet the Sporting Clay guys whine, but when the shot rains down on the pistol rang, which has a silhouette and rifle range between it and the clays, its HUH!
15 MPH spped limit, don't apply to them. They want the rifle range closed.
I won't knock the Clay target sports it does bring revenue into the club, but those guys are on their own planet.

[Frank]

The inter-disciplinary squabbles are bad for us. It's funny, but at our main club, I'm one of the few people who is interested in all disciplines (handgun, wingshooting and rifle) and who actively teaches. It's true that I haven't competed in IPSC for a while, but I still take tactical classes and teach handgun. My primary competition for a while has been trap. And although I don't shoot a lot of rifle, I've taken the general rifle class at Gunsite. But mostly it's as Eddie and Ken describe things.

Another club I belong to does something very nice to try to ameliorate this type of situation. The IPSC guys set up a stage and bring some guns. The Cowboy Action guys do likewise. And the skeet shooters and highpower shooters and the Schutzen shooters and the small bore shooter all do something similar. Then every club member gets to try everything out. It's great fun and promotes a healthy camaraderie.

[Patriotic]

About 35 years ago I joined the NRA while in the military. Back then I purchased my first handgun and became involved in competition shooting. When I returned to the states (New York specifically) I found I could not legally keep my handgun and so I let my NRA membership expire. About five years ago I moved to Ohio and became more involved with recreational shooting. In February of this year I purchased a Taurus PT1911. Taurus offered a free one year membership to the NRA which I took them up on and will continue to renew. I would hope and think other US gun manufacturers and even retailers would do the same to protect their businesses. Just a thought.