Semi-Auto Malfunction = Machinegun

[kenhwind]

I'm sure of us are familar with this case:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=97116

[Chilo45]

Pardon me for saying this out loud, but STUPID JUDGES are prevalent in our judicial system. If they would just enforce the law rather than making it.

[d90king]

Why are there no links to the facts of the case? It is written as an editorial piece buy one of the writers for that site. :confused:

I would be interested in the facts of the case.

It doesn't follow the law if you do not give the defense a chance to refute evidence, call witnesses and examine all test being used as evidence against the defendant. Something is missing here. :scared

Did the rifle have a 3rd hole?

It sounds to me like a no sear block A2 from the 80's... :D

[kenhwind]

This case has been ongoing and I agree more input is needed. I found this link this AM and posted.
An AR was loaned and it doubled or something like that and the cops got involved, or were there. So they arrested the owner, and ATF went out of their way to get the AR to go full auto and prosecuted.
According to ATF a malfunction its a Machinegun even if its a double barreled shotgun.
I'll see if I can find some more info.

[kenhwind]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Olofson
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=68590
http://www.libertybelles.org/articles/criminalbatfe.htm
http://www.jpfo.org/articles-assd/olofson-vs-us.htm
Pat I found these, more just type in David Olofson

[d90king]

Problem # 1 If it has a 3rd position it is an automatic fire weapon. :confused:

Kiernicki testified that Olofson had told Kiernicki that the third position of the rifle's firing selector was for automatic firing, but it jammed, court records indicate. He also testified Olofson told him he had fired the weapon on the automatic setting at that same range without a problem. From Wilki..

The other links are much like the first one..

[kenhwind]

http://www.examiner.com/x-1417-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m1d22-Breaking-news-Olofson-attorney-on-Lou-Dobbs
http://gunowners.com/olofson.htm
According to Len Savage, a weaponry expert who runs Historic Arms LLC, BATFE paid Kiernicki an undisclosed amount of money for his testimony.[4] Also fron Wiki

[d90king]

http://www.examiner.com/x-1417-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m1d22-Breaking-news-Olofson-attorney-on-Lou-Dobbs
http://gunowners.com/olofson.htm
According to Len Savage, a weaponry expert who runs Historic Arms LLC, BATFE paid Kiernicki an undisclosed amount of money for his testimony.[4] Also fron Wiki
Forget the testimony, if the rifle had a 3rd notch it IS an automatic rifle. A semi only has 2 clicks...

Am I missing something?

[Aguila Blanca]

I don't believe the safety had a third position. I think the BATFE's "expert" witness was a paid prostitute who said what they wanted him to say.

Remember ... this is the same BATFE that also ruled a shoelace was a machine gun. Alice got better logic out of the Queen of Hearts and the Mad Hatter.

[kenhwind]

Patrick read this I just did;
http://www.firearmscoalition.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=192&Itemid=37
A CNN video:
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2008/03/13/ldt.tucker.govt.guns.cnn
There is a Part 2 to the video.

[d90king]

Patrick read this I just did;
http://www.firearmscoalition.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=192&Itemid=37
Well that is outrageous! How can the defense be denied a chance to independently conduct a test on the weapon. It wouldn't seem that they would be damaging the evidence in their independent test.

This seems crazy that they are reclassifying a type of rifle because to much pressure was applied to a safety switch.

Why in the world would they push this hard on a "victimless" crime?

[kenhwind]

I just added another link on my last post the CNN report.

[Aguila Blanca]

Why in the world would they push this hard on a "victimless" crime?

Ummm ... because they have an agenda ... maybe?

[PhantomAce]

"Oh no!!! An AR-15 (or whatever it was) can spontaneously become a machine gun!!! Save us from the scourge! We must ban them ALL, and right now!!!"

Yep... I can already hear it. Just what we don't need, and EXACTLY why they're pushing this case, IMHO.

[BluegrazzGuy]

Here are a few of the facts from the appellate court opinion:


David Olofson was indicted for knowingly transferring a machinegun in violation of 18
U.S.C. § 922(o). A jury convicted Olofson of the charged offense following a two-day trial . . .

Olofson informed Kiernicki that the advertised gun was no longer available but agreed to order and assemble another Colt AR-15 for Kiernicki. In the meantime, Olofson loaned Kiernicki an AR-15 [FN1] and hundreds of rounds of ammunition on four separate occasions. The selector switch on the borrowed AR-15 had three positions: one marked “fire,” one marked “safety,” and one that was unmarked. Olofson and Kiernicki discussed the unmarked setting on July 13, 2006, which was the fourth time that Olofson loaned Kiernicki the weapon. Olofson told Kiernicki that putting the selector switch in the unmarked position would enable the AR-15 to fire a three-round burst with a single pull of the trigger, but the gun would then jam. . . .

Kiernicki (for the first time since using the gun) switched the AR-15
to the unmarked position and pulled the trigger; three or
four rounds were discharged before the gun jammed.
Kiernicki fired the weapon in that fashion several times,
and each time it jammed after a short burst of three or
four rounds. Police received a telephone complaint of
automatic gunfire at the shooting range. When officers
arrived at the range, they confiscated the AR-15 from
Kiernicki. . . .
----------------
[FN1] Four of the AR-15’s 1 fire control components were parts from
M-16 rifles: the trigger, hammer, disconnector, and selector
switch.
----------------
The government’s expert testified that he used military grade ammunition the first time he test-fired the AR-15
with the selector switch in the unmarked position and that
the gun fired only one round. Later, using civilian-grade
ammunition, he conducted two more test-fires of the
weapon in the unmarked mode. In one of those tests, he
held the trigger down and the gun fired all of its ammunition
(twenty rounds) before stopping. He also emptied
two twenty-round magazines in five- or ten-round bursts
by depressing, holding, and releasing the trigger several
times. The government’s expert stated that such firing
capabilities did not result from a “hammer-follow” malfunction
but rather were intended features of the gun.


http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/tmp/NC1FFYF0.pdf


Thus, Olofson cobbled together a gun using parts from an M16, knew it would fire multiple times with a single trigger pull, and transferred it (loaned it) to another. I have also seen web reports that Olofson was an anti-government zeaolot who did not believe the United States government was a legitimate governing authority.

[kenhwind]

Funny he wasn't charged with possessing or manufacturing any machineguns. How did he transfer a machinegun if he didn't posses one in the first place.
I have also seen web reports that Olofson was an anti-government zeaolot who did not believe the United States government was a legitimate governing authority.
What does that have to do with the case.
Remember "Ruby Ridge"

[BluegrazzGuy]

What does that have to do with the case.
In context, he was sending an email suggesting the U.S. laws on weapons could be ignored:

MG’s [machineguns] are just the small toys one can get. Remember, as a Sovereign you are unhindered by the regulations that the federal citizens have to follow. There is a separate set of paperwork dealers must fill out to cover there [sic] butts on where the weapons and other items went. That is what a Sovereigns alien ID number dose [sic] for him. It’s just a way of accounting for where it went. Yes you can build any weapon you like. To learn more, especially details on the paperwork you should learn more about Sovereignty first. After some basic knowledge we will walk you through everything the first time to help you get the hang of it. Finding real freedom for the first time is like a babies [sic] first steps. You haven’t really done it before so you don’t’s know what it’s like. But we can change that. Then you can literally do most anything you want so long as it interferes with no others rights or person.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3283879&highlight=olofson#post3283879 no. 18 (cited to page now gone).

Helps show he is not somebody who made a simple mistake with a malfunctioning weapon.

[d90king]

Helps show he is not somebody who made a simple mistake with a malfunctioning weapon.

The only part I have a slight problem with is that it appears that the guy borrowing it knew that he was operating an illegal weapon... The guy lending it knew the same... The gun then operated and failed exactly as he said it would.

There are always two sides to a story but based on the testimony that has been posted they both knew that it was firing as an automatic rifle.

[Rich-D]

I don't believe the safety had a third position. I think the BATFE's "expert" witness was a paid prostitute who said what they wanted him to say.

Remember ... this is the same BATFE that also ruled a shoelace was a machine gun. Alice got better logic out of the Queen of Hearts and the Mad Hatter.
A shoelace ruled a Machine Gun? Interesting, I would like to read that ruling. Do you have any citations or information in order that I may look up that case.

Rich

[kenhwind]

Well durung the testimony of the trial the feds admited that a malfunction that fired more than one round was considered a machinegun, even Grandpa's old double.
http://www.firearmscoalition.org/in...d=192&Itemid=37

The cornerstone of this charge is the government’s contention that it doesn’t matter whether a gun fires multiple shots as a result of malfunction or modification because the law defines a machinegun as; “… any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.” While on the witness stand, firearms expert Len Savage asked the Assistant US Attorney prosecuting the case if that would make his grandfather’s old double-gun a machinegun if it malfunctioned and fired both barrels with one pull of the trigger. The AUSA responded by paraphrasing the legal definition of a machinegun with emphasis placed on “any weapon which shoots… more than one shot… by a single function of the trigger.”

[Aguila Blanca]

A shoelace ruled a Machine Gun? Interesting, I would like to read that ruling. Do you have any citations or information in order that I may look up that case.
Ask, and ye shall receive: http://www.mp5.net/info/ATF_Ruling_2004-09-30_String_Trick.pdf

[kenhwind]

Now that's interesting, but unless the disconector failed the shoestring jerked the finger each time and only fired one shot each time.

[Rich-D]

Ask, and ye shall receive: http://www.mp5.net/info/ATF_Ruling_2004-09-30_String_Trick.pdf
I thank you! I would love to try the string trick! Just to see if it indeed turns a Semi-Auto into a Full Auto. However, I value my freedom more than my inquisitiveness!

Also, The letter you posted in your link, contains information which was clarified by a subsequent BATFE letter. Which clearly relates that a shoelace with or without the configured loops is not "by itself" deemed a machine gun.
http://www.mp5.net/info/2007-06-25%20String%20Trick%20-%20ATF%20FTB%20Overrules%20Itself%20-%20redacted.pdf

Rich

[BluegrazzGuy]

I have no problem with the interpretation that a shoestring used to jury rig a firing system to continuously fire with one trigger pull converts the gun into a machine gun. That's what the law says and that's what the jury rigged gun does. It's illegal. Now, if you don't like the law, that's another argument altogether.

[kenhwind]

that a shoestring used to jury rig a firing system to continuously fire with one trigger pull converts the gun into a machine gun.
It won't and cannot if the firearm in question has a disconnector. The shoestring jerks the yrigger each time the bolt closes. One trigger pull one shot.

[kenhwind]

OK I want to be clear about something. I 'am not an advocate of violating any laws, especially any gun laws.
Ironically people went out of their to design and manufacture devices that enabled a semi-auto firearm to simulate full auto. These products were approved by BATFE and then sold. They are no longer available. ATF changed their ruling on them. Why would someone design a feature like these had, that only give gun owners a bad rep. Financial gain, I ain't paying that line. Ignorance or stupidity applies here.

If Olofson was manufacturing illegal weapons why wasn't he charged with that. Kiernicki was in possesion of said weapon and ain't in jail. Something smells like a bobby trap IMO