TSA...Firearms & Ammunition Regulations

[Rich-D]

Transportation Security Administration
Traveling with Special Items
Firearms & Ammunition


You may only transport firearms, ammunition and firearm parts in your checked baggage. Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts are prohibited from carry-on baggage.

There are certain limited exceptions for law enforcement officers who may fly armed by meeting the requirements of Title 49 CFR § 1544.219. Law enforcement officers should read our policies on traveling with guns.

The key regulatory requirements to transporting firearms, firearm parts or ammunition in checked baggage are:

You must declare all firearms to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.
The firearm must be unloaded.
The firearm must be in a hard-sided container.
The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from access by anyone other than you. Cases that can be pulled open with little effort do not meet this criterion. The pictures provided here illustrate the difference between a properly packaged and an improperly packaged firearm.
We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain present during screening to take the key back after the container is cleared. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can't contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft.
You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above.
You can't bring black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms in either your carry-on or checked baggage.

We and other authorities strictly enforce these regulations. Violations can result in criminal prosecution and civil penalties of up to $10,000 per violation.

Airlines may have their own additional requirements on the carriage of firearms and the amount of ammunition that you may have in your checked baggage. Therefore, travelers should also contact the airline regarding its firearm and ammunition carriage policies.

TSA Website: http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm

Rich

[KCShooter]

One thing you may want to know before you fly is that there are specific locks available that are called TSA locks, they have a master key capability and the TSA can unlock even a combination lock with their master key. This will keep them from having to destroy a lock that is opened outside of your presence.

[Rich-D]

Personally, It does not sit well with me that the TSA, or any baggage handler with a master key ( if I were to utilize a TSA approved lock) can gain access to my luggage without me ever knowing. The last time I flew was in 2002, at which time I was summoned aside and requested to open my luggage, which contained a legally declared firearm.

When I fly again, I will place a second lock inside of my suitcase, in a large envelope posted with instructions in large letters. If they cut off the first lock, they can replace it with the lock of my choosing. However, I will know immediately on view that my luggage was entered.

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/customer/claims/damagedlocks.shtm

Rich

[KCShooter]

When I fly again, I will place a second lock inside of my suitcase, in a large envelope posted with instructions in large letters. If they cut off the first lock, they can replace it with the lock of my choosing. However, I will know immediately on view that my luggage was entered.
That's a great idea, Rich.

[d90king]

Personally, It does not sit well with me that the TSA, or any baggage handler with a master key ( if I were to utilize a TSA approved lock) can gain access to my luggage without me ever knowing. The last time I flew was in 2002, at which time I was summoned aside and requested to open my luggage, which contained a legally declared firearm.

When I fly again, I will place a second lock inside of my suitcase, in a large envelope posted with instructions in large letters. If they cut off the first lock, they can replace it with the lock of my choosing. However, I will know immediately on view that my luggage was entered.

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/customer/claims/damagedlocks.shtm

Rich
They put a tag on it if they enter your luggage to screen it. I would never trust the airlines with one of my firearms.

I would overnight it to myself. ;)

[Rich-D]

They put a tag on it if they enter your luggage to screen it. I would never trust the airlines with one of my firearms.

I would overnight it to myself. ;)
That is, if it an Official entry! Too many TSA keys in too many hands for my liking!

Rich

[Carole-K]

That is, if it an Official entry! Too many TSA keys in too many hands for my liking!

Rich
Just a thought - if someone from the TSA is bent using their key for other than official purposes - what makes you think they're going to replace your non-TSA lock that the cut off your bag with the one you placed in your bag?

Come to think of it, if they are opening and searching your bag for official purposes they're just as likely to ignore your request and not lock the bag - at which point you're bag is now not only open to any TSA employee with a master key but to everyone who comes into contact with your bag.

Though, in an attempt to remain on topic - I don't know that I would, locks or no locks, want to trust a firearm or ammunition (or anything of considerable value) to the TSA and airlines. But then, I simply avoid that incredible breech of my privacy by refusing to fly. If I can't get there by car I don't need to go there at all.

[Rich-D]

Just a thought - if someone from the TSA is bent using their key for other than official purposes - what makes you think they're going to replace your non-TSA lock that the cut off your bag with the one you placed in your bag?

They could not utilize a TSA key on a non TSA lock! Second, if my lock were cut off, replaced or not, I would know immediately when picking up my luggage. Utilizing a TSA lock, you have no way of knowing if your privacy was breached.

Come to think of it, if they are opening and searching your bag for official purposes they're just as likely to ignore your request and not lock the bag - at which point you're bag is now not only open to any TSA employee with a master key but to everyone who comes into contact with your bag.

If they are opening the bag for official purposes, the TSA is required to re-secure the luggage. Whether they utilize my lock or not, the luggage will be secured!

Personally, I agree with d90kings assessment. It is best to overnight the gun to your destination.

Rich

[KCShooter]

Personally, I agree with d90kings assessment. It is best to overnight the gun to your destination.

RichBut if your destination is out-of-state, don't you have to ship directly to an FFL?

[Tom]

I say "To Heck with it" and just drive. That way I can carry my "toys" with me and not worry about who might be opening what.

Seriously, I avoid flying at all costs now. If I can't drive there, I won't go. Period.

[PhantomAce]

KC:
I "think" that the need for an FFL only applies if the weapon is changing hands/ownership.
For example, you can send a pistol to Colt for repairs, and they can send it back to you directly, without needing to go through an FFL.
However, this may be one of those "few" (note sarcasm) times in life that I am wrong about something.

Can anyone with specific info/knowledge chime in and clarify?

[Rich-D]

But if your destination is out-of-state, don't you have to ship directly to an FFL?
I may not be correct, however It was my belief that you can legally mail a firearm to yourself! I have to check on that when I have a chance.!

Rich

[d90king]

But if your destination is out-of-state, don't you have to ship directly to an FFL?



Not if you are shipping it to yourself. The package cannot be opened by anyone other than you. The firearm also must be lawful in the state that it is arriving in.

I will find the link I was sent from ATF's website a couple years ago.

[Carole-K]

Rich,

My only point was that a TSA employee who is bent on doing things that are illegal are going to do it no matter what kind of lock you use. If they cut the non-TSA rule conforming lock off of your bag they don't have to replace it with the spare lock you place in the bag and all they have to do is put a "Your bag was searched" sheet in your bag and then say that someone else in the baggage handling chain of custody took things out of your unlocked bag.

But again, in remaining on the topic of guns and the TSA - I solve the problem by not flying because there is no way on earth, locked bag or unlocked bag, TSA lock or non-TSA lock that I would tempt fate by trying to transport guns on a commercial flight, even if it is within the law.

[kenhwind]

I may not be correct, however It was my belief that you can legally mail a firearm to yourself! I have to check on that when I have a chance.!
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? [Back]


Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

[Aguila Blanca]

There is a problem. A BIG problem.

What Rich-D quoted is not the law, it is directly from the TSA's web site -- which is advisory. Speaking of TSA employees doing illegal things ... if you follow the advice in their advisory, you will be committing a Federal felony.

We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain present during screening to take the key back after the container is cleared.

The governing law is 49 CFR 1540.111. What it says is:

(c) In checked baggage. A passenger may not transport or offer for transport in checked baggage or in baggage carried in an inaccessible cargo hold under §1562.23 of this chapter:

(1) Any loaded firearm(s).

(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless—

(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally or in writing, before checking the baggage, that the passenger has a firearm in his or her bag and that it is unloaded;

(ii) The firearm is unloaded;

(iii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container; and

(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination.
Here's the link to the complete section of the laws: http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title49/49-9.1.3.5.8.2.10.6.html

I highlighted the key part: "... and only the passenger retains the key or combination." Regardless of whether or not the TSA "recommends" that you provide the key to the screener, under the law you are not allowed to do so. If they want your bag opened, that's one thing. If they want the hard case containing the firearm opened, only YOU may open it, and they may not open it without your being present and unlocking the hard case for them.

In fact, there is no requirement that the outer suitcase be locked at all. The law regarding transport of firearms speaks only to the requirement that the container holding the firearm be locked. That's an important distinction. Don't let a TSA screener buffalo you into violating the law just to make their live a bit easier (and your life potentially a lot more difficult). If you travel by air with firearms, print out several copies of the law, highlight the part about you retaining the key or combination, and if a screener gives you a hard time ... request a superisor immediately. Don't get involved in an argument with a drone.

[Aguila Blanca]

I may not be correct, however It was my belief that you can legally mail a firearm to yourself! I have to check on that when I have a chance.!

Rich
You may legally ship a firearm to yourself, but if the firearm is a handgun you cannot use the mail, it has to go by commercial carrier.

[kenhwind]

I may not be correct, however It was my belief that you can legally mail a firearm to yourself!
I would like to add that in some states this is illegal: All hanmdguns entering or leaving the State of NY must go through a FFL. CA, NJ, MA, MD, just some food for thought.

[Aguila Blanca]

I may not be correct, however It was my belief that you can legally mail a firearm to yourself!

I would like to add that in some states this is illegal: All hanmdguns entering or leaving the State of NY must go through a FFL. CA, NJ, MA, MD, just some food for thought.
Are there any attorneys present who can comment on this? My understanding was that the NY law applies to transfers. Sending a firearm to yourself is not a transfer -- that's why the Feds allow it, and why they are specific that no other person on the receiving end may open the package. You must be shipping it to yourself. Further, if it's coming from out of state, it is involved in interstate commerce (yes, it is commerce -- you PAY some carrier to haul your firearm across the state line), and interstate commerce overrides a lot of state laws.

Does anyone have a cite to the actual language of the relevent NY statute or regulation?

[kenhwind]

Yep I think we need a legal answer to that one.

[d90king]

All hanmdguns entering or leaving the State of NY must go through a FFL. CA, NJ, MA, MD, just some food for thought

This would technically be impossible. If you are traveling through the state to a destination that it is lawful to posses, they have no way of monitoring firearms that enter/leave their state.

I believe you are referring to transferring of a firearm clause...

Remember in the states you mentioned I don't believe a non resident can be in possession of a firearm (they dont honor non resident permits). So in essence bringing firearms "in" would be unlawful so its a catch 22. I believe one of the few exceptions is a sanctioned shooting event or training course. I do know that if you attend one of those activities you do NOT register your weapon with the state.

For residents there very well could be a registry and that could also be another angle of the law where you would possibly need a ffl.

[kenhwind]

I believe one of the few exceptions is a sanctioned shooting event or training course. I do know that if you attend one of those activities you do NOT register your weapon with the state.
This seems to be true, legal to transport, but as far as shipping into NY (?).

[d90king]

This seems to be true, legal to transport, but as far as shipping into NY (?).
When I get some time I will look into it. It very well could be some hidden law...

[kenhwind]

When I get some time I will look into it. It very well could be some hidden law...
I looked last night and found what you posted about bringing a firearm into NY for a shooting event, but it read "transport" not "Ship". Everything I read indicated that a handgun shipped into NY to a non FFL would be confiscated.

[Rich-D]

There is a problem. A BIG problem.
What Rich-D quoted is not the law, it is directly from the TSA's web site -- which is advisory. Speaking of TSA employees doing illegal things ... if you follow the advice in their advisory, you will be committing a Federal felony.
There is no Federal Statute making it a crime to hand your key to a TSA Agent for the sole purpose of opening the luggage in your presence. In fact, there is no violation of law what so ever, especially not a felony. Furthermore, the fact that the TSA website directs passengers to permit a TSA employee to open the lock, speaks for itself and would bar any action against a passenger, if there indeed was such a law!

While title 49 States in part: "... and only the passenger retains the key or combination." Which can be compared to the law requiring a Firearms Carry License to be in possession at all times when armed. If a Law Enforcement officer takes your carry license in hand for investigation. You cannot be charged for carrying a gun without a license in possession. The same laws apply to driving privileges, a license must be in possession when operating a motor vehicle. However, you must hand it to an officer on request.

The fact is, the TSA directive ( not advisory) is clearly written and intended for the safety of the officers. If they suspect that a person may have a loaded gun, it would be foolish to permit that person to open the gun box.

Also, the TSA Home Page provides the following directive to passengers:
"The passenger must provide the key or combination to the screener if it is necessary to open the container, and then remain present during screening to take back possession of the key after the container is cleared." In that manner, the passenger retains constructive possession of the key! http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1188.shtm



"Don't let a TSA screener buffalo you into violating the law just to make their live a bit easier (and your life potentially a lot more difficult). If you travel by air with firearms, print out several copies of the law, highlight the part about you retaining the key or combination, and if a screener gives you a hard time ... request a superisor immediately. Don't get involved in an argument with a drone."
From the travelers prospective I don't see the difference in who opens the luggage or case in the presence of the traveler. Except the fact that requesting a supervisor would delay the inspection and the traveler may miss their flight. Or worse yet, the lock on the case is cut off, due to the traveler refusing to permit TSA Security to turn the key. And the traveler is subjected to a more through search and investigation.

Simply handing a key to a TSA Security Agent who will open the lock in your presence, may make the function of the TSA a bit easier. However, making your life a lot more difficult would appear to be in defying a TSA request, which is clearly stated on the TSA website as standard procedure. I don't think causing more work for enforcement officials benefits anyone.

One may think, combo locks, they will have my code! That is one of the reasons that I recommended earlier, have a second lock with you!

...........................................................................................................

Referring to another Post, responded to by Aguila Blanca

In so far as my use of the generic term "Mail", I was not Referring to utilizing the US Postal service to send handguns. I have had numerous Auction dealings over the years, and I am well aware of the U.S. Postal Code. However, the term mail may have been a poor choice of words for the uninformed reader.

Rich

[DoubleTap45]

There was some poor guy who ended up in JAIL because he was travelling THROUGH NJ and they have NO respect for the FOPA in that state whatsoever. If you're on an airliner that is diverted to NJ and you have a checked handgun with hollowpoint ammo in another LOCKED case they DON'T care. They will thrash you through the system.

I'm going to the NRA Convention in Pittsburgh and will NOT drive thru Jersey. I will drive into PA via Orange County, NY even if it IS a longer route. GPS all the way.

-Ray

[Aguila Blanca]

There was some poor guy who ended up in JAIL because he was travelling THROUGH NJ and they have NO respect for the FOPA in that state whatsoever. If you're on an airliner that is diverted to NJ and you have a checked handgun with hollowpoint ammo in another LOCKED case they DON'T care. They will thrash you through the system.

I'm going to the NRA Convention in Pittsburgh and will NOT drive thru Jersey. I will drive into PA via Orange County, NY even if it IS a longer route. GPS all the way.
This is VERY old news. He was arrested in Newark International Airport, but he was NOT arrested by either NJ State Police or any local PD. He was arrested by Port Authority cops, and charges were subsequently dropped. (Admittedly, not before he had spent several days in the lock-up, which would certainly ruin MY weekend.) Also, he was not arrested because he had hollow-point ammo. He was arrested because he had a gun.

It is also completely unfair to say that they have no respect for the FOPA in NJ. In fact, the exact language of the FOPA is also included in New Jersey state statutes. If you are passing through NJ on the Turnpike or the Interstate highway system, you will not have any problems with the state police if your transport actually does comply with the FOPA. One very minor thing to be aware of is that if you have a station wagon or SUV, the FOPA requires that the firearm(s) "OR" the ammunition be in a separate locked case. NJ requires that the firearm(s) "AND" the ammunition be in separate locked cases.

New York has less respect for the FOPA than NJ. I'm not sure your chosen route represents much of an improvement.

[DoubleTap45]

State not so much. Once you get out of Bloomyland you're almost home free. Upstate is a patchwork of gun friendly sheriffs and some real petty tyrants.

-Ray

[Aguila Blanca]

There is no Federal Statute making it a crime to hand your key to a TSA Agent for the sole purpose of opening the luggage in your presence. In fact, there is no violation of law what so ever, especially not a felony. Furthermore, the fact that the TSA website directs passengers to permit a TSA employee to open the lock, speaks for itself and would bar any action against a passenger, if there indeed was such a law!
The TSA website is a guideline. Note that it says they "recommend" that you hand over the key or combination. They do not say it is required. In fact, there IS a Federal regulation that specifically prohibits this: 14 CFR 108.203(e)(2)(iii) http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/janqtr/pdf/14cfr108.203.pdf

§ 108.203 Acceptance and screening of
checked baggage.

...

(e) Firearms in checked baggage. No aircraft operator may knowingly permit any person to transport, nor may a person transport or offer for transport in checked baggage:

(1) Any loaded firearm(s);

(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless—

(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally or in writing before checking the baggage that any firearm carried in the baggage is unloaded;

(ii) The firearm is carried in a hardsided container;

(iii) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the person checking the baggage retains the key or combination; and
...
The same requirement is repeated in 49 CFR 1544.203(f)(2)(iii)

[Rich-D]

A.B. The regulation you cite, applies specifically to Airlines and their employees. The regulation does not apply to the TSA or Law Enforcement. In fact, 14 CFR FAA Regulations Sections 121.538 and 135.125 were revised requiring airline operators to comply with TSA Security Rules instead of FAA Security Rules. See page 8341 last paragraph. https://www.natacs.aero/content/Federal_Register_Vol_67_8340.pdf

If a persons locked luggage is suspected of having illicit firearm, explosives or other dangerous weapons, it would be unreasonably dangerous to permit that person to be in control of opening the luggage.

The recommendation to turn the key over to a TSA Representative, is to avoid the passengers bag being forcibly opened. Which would prevent the bag being placed on the flight, due to not being locked.

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm
We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can't contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft.

Complying with TSA Rules, Regulations and Guidelines is the prudent choice for travelers. The consequences of non compliance, at best are a missed flight and damaged locks preventing the firearm's lawful transportation.

[DoubleTap45]

For those who can swing it or pool resources a Net Jet flight avoids the inspectors. Small G-4 or Lear and you're there. :appld:

-Ray

[Aguila Blanca]

Complying with TSA Rules, Regulations and Guidelines is the prudent choice for travelers. The consequences of non compliance, at best are a missed flight and damaged locks preventing the firearm's lawful transportation.
But you have not cited a TSA rule or regulation, you have only cited a guideline. Last I knew, TSA would not allow mere citizens to see their actual regulations; they claimed they were "classified."

You obviously may/must do what you think best. For myself, if I were ever to fly with a firearm I would print out the two CFRs involved and insist that the TSA drones call a supervisor if they don't think they have to follow the rules promulgated by the government.

[Rich-D]

A.B. The Dept of Transportation Rules include FAA and TSA Rules 14 & 49 CFR. Specific numerical designations are cited in the Federal Register link contained in my previous post. A person is able to research a specific rule eg:: 49 CFR 121.537 by means of their Internet search engine.

On the matter of locks, would you folks trust these TSA Recognized Baggage Locks? http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/locks.shtm

[DoubleTap45]

I would not trust most Feds to walk and chew gum.

-Ray

[Rich-D]

I just sent the following e-mail to the TSA Blog Staff

Dear Staff,

On September 16, 2010 11:24 PM, I posted the following question in a Blog titled: 'Guns Are No Fun At Checkpoint" However, there has been no response from the TSA Blog Staff.

> Question: Can a passenger provide the key or combo to Security without violating Rule § 108.203

Rule § 108.203 Acceptance and screening of checked baggage.
(iii) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the person checking the baggage retains the key or combination

However, http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtra...orial_1666.shtm
We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can't contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft. <

I thank you in advance for your consideration in the above matter.

Respectfully Submitted,
Full name included

[Rich-D]

Several e-mails later and still no response to my inquiry Posted on the TSA Public Blog on September 24, 2010.

[Aguila Blanca]

I don't think you will receive a response. If they respond, they will either have to lie, or admit that the information promulgated in their advisories is contrary to what the law clearly states.

Don't hold your breath.

[Rich-D]

Don't hold your breath.
After 6 months attempting to receive a response to my TSA Blog question, you can beleive that I am not holding my breath!