Gun Control on the High Seas

[Rich-D]

This article is a prime example of disarming the lawful and subjecting them to the ravages of the lawless! http://gunowners.org/gun-control-on-the-high-seas.htm

Rich

[Tom]

Maybe if we stopped shipping goods to these countries, they'll wake up and realize they're on the wrong side of the issue.

[Rich-D]

Tom, That is a good idea! Either accept the fact that our ships are armed or starve. ;)


Rich

[kenhwind]

I have a better idea, two M2 HB BMGs and a detachment of Marines armed with Thompson Submachine guns and 45 automatic pistols.
OK M3 Grease guns would work just fine.

[Chilo45]

Desired NewsFlash: The United States has issued a new tariff on all products and services exported from our nation in the form of a full detachment of Marines fully combat armed and ready with each and every shipment by any means. This tariff (the full overhead cost for the Marines and their supplies) will be paid in American dollars directly to the United States government prior to any shipment leaving our country and all funds collected will go to towards the medical costs of all returning service members with injuries suffered defending the United States of America.

[Rich-D]

I have a better idea, two M2 HB BMGs and a detachment of Marines armed with Thompson Submachine guns and 45 automatic pistols.
OK M3 Grease guns would work just fine.
Ken, The marines trained in the use of Thompsons and Grease Guns, may now be too overweight to fit in their uniforms! :)


Rich

[John]

:lm:

[Rich-D]

Ken, Sorry, he-----------> :eb: made me do it!

Rich ;)

[Pappy]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gB7YMEDuCwwY9ncDOtPAkEI4-H2wD97Q66AG0

Cruise ship fends off pirate attack with gunfire

By NICOLE WINFIELD – 29 minutes ago

ROME (AP) — An Italian cruise ship with 1,500 people on board fended off a pirate attack far off the coast of Somalia when its Israeli private security forces exchanged fire with the bandits and drove them away, the commander said Sunday.

Cmdr. Ciro Pinto told Italian state radio that six men in a small white speed boat approached the Msc Melody and opened fire Saturday night, but retreated after the Israeli security officers aboard the cruise ship returned fire.

"It felt like we were in war," Pinto said.

None of the roughly 1,000 passengers and 500 crew members were hurt, Melody owner Msc Cruises said in a statement issued by its German branch.

Domenico Pellegrino, head of the Italian cruise line, said Msc Cruises hired the Israelis because they were the best trained security agents, the ANSA news agency reported.

Separately, the Turkish cruiser Ariva 3, with two British and four Japanese crew aboard, survived a pirate attack near the Yemeni island of Jabal Zuqar early Sunday, said Ali el-Awlaqi, head of the Yemeni El-Awlaqi Marine company said.

"Pirates opened fire at the cruise ship for 15 minutes then stopped for no reason," he said, adding that the cruiser was heading to Aden, Yemen, to fix a broken engine.

Civilian shipping and passenger ships have generally avoided arming crewmen or hiring armed security for reasons of safety, liability and compliance with the rules of the different countries where they dock.

Saturday's exchange of fire between pirates and the Melody was one of the first reported between pirates and a nonmilitary ship. International military forces have battled pirates, with U.S. Navy snipers killing three holding an American captain hostage in one of the highest-profile incidents.

It was not the first attack on a cruise liner, however. In December, pirates opened fire on a U.S.-operated ship carrying hundreds of tourists on a monthlong luxury cruise from Rome to Singapore, but the cruise liner was able to outrun the pirates. In early April a tourist yacht was hijacked by Somali pirates near the Seychelles just after having dropped off its cargo of tourists.

Saturday's attack occurred about 200 miles (325 kilometers) north of the Seychelles, and about 500 miles (800 kilometers) east of Somalia, according to the anti-piracy flotilla headquarters of the Maritime Security Center Horn of Africa.

Lt. Nathan Christensen, a spokesman for the U.S. Navy 5th Fleet, noted that the distance from the Somalia coast was a sign of the pirates' increasing skill.

"It's not unheard of to have attacks off the coast of the Seychelles, we've even had some in the past month," he said. "But at the same time, it is a sign that they are moving further and further off the Somali coast," demonstrating a "definite shift in their tactical capabilities."

Pinto said the pirates fired with automatic weapons, slightly damaging the liner, and tried to put a ladder on board. But he said they were unable to climb aboard.

The commander said his security forces opened fire with pistols, and the ANSA news agency said the pistols had been kept in a safe under the joint control of the commander and security chief.

Cruise line security work is a popular job for young Israelis who have recently been discharged from mandatory army service, as it is a good chance to save money and travel.

The Spanish warship SPS Marques de Ensenada was meeting up with the liner to escort her through the pirate-infested northern Gulf of Aden, the Maritime Security Center said.

The cruise ship was headed as scheduled to the Jordanian port of Aqaba. The Melody was on a 22-day cruise from Durban, South Africa, to Genoa, Italy, returning to the Mediterranean for spring and summer season cruises.

Meanwhile, Somali pirates on Sunday demanded a $5 million ransom for the release of two Egyptian fishing boats hijacked earlier this month, and the safe return of their crew, Egyptian Foreign Ministry official Ahmed Rizq said in Cairo.

"Tribal sheiks are trying to mediate to convince the hijackers to release the boats and the sailors, but it's clear to everybody that we are dealing with piracy that has no other purpose but money," he said, adding that the negotiations were between the hijackers and the boats' owners.

Pirates have attacked more than 100 ships off the Somali coast over the last year, reaping an estimated $1 million in ransom for each successful hijacking, according to analysts and country experts.

Another Italian-owned vessel remains in the hands of pirates. The Italian-flagged tugboat Buccaneer was seized off Somalia on April 11 with 16 crew members aboard.

On Saturday, the Foreign Ministry dispatched a special envoy, Margherita Boniver, to Somalia to try to win the release of the tug and crew. In a statement, the ministry also denied reports by relatives of the crew that an ultimatum had been issued by the pirates.

Associated Press writers Rukmini Callimachi in Nairobi, Kenya, and Ahmed al-Haj in Yemen contributed to this report.

[d90king]

Maybe if we stopped shipping goods to these countries, they'll wake up and realize they're on the wrong side of the issue.
In goods you mean our "humanitarian aid' to the millions of starving people in the home country of the pirates.

[d90king]

but retreated after the Israeli security officers aboard the cruise ship returned fire.


Interesting that the pirates are just like the common thugs in America.

When you stand up to them, they they scatter and run like cockroaches when you turn the lights on.

[Rich-D]

The commander said his security forces opened fire with pistols, and the ANSA news agency said the pistols had been kept in a safe under the joint control of the commander and security chief.

I almost choked when I read that the Security Force were armed with just pistols. It has to be an Insurance Regulation. No trained security force on the high seas would rely on just pistols. The pirates are armed with AK's and rockets..... Pistols.....Ridiculess at best!

Rich

[Tom]

Rich, you have to think about the environment. You're on a ship. Even a cruise ship is a maze of narrow passageways, ladders, hatches and decks. Pistols are well suited to that environment.

Bravo Zulu to Italy for waking up and smelling the coffee!

[Rich-D]

Tom, For the safety of the passengers and crew, ( on cargo ships the crew) the goal should be to prevent the boarding in the first place. Once boarded, sidearms could be utilized when and where appropriate.

Rich

[kenhwind]

Ken, The marines trained in the use of Thompsons and Grease Guns, may now be too overweight to fit in their uniforms!
I never saw a Thompson in the Marines and I sure can't fit in no uniform.
What armed with M-16s, sorry guys its a piece of junk. M-14s yep that 'd work.
Well you know the Navy SEALS have the right weapon and the Marines have well trained snipers.
Well at least the U.S.Marine Corps had to have the Pentagon order them to use the M-9, and not the 1911A1. Nuff said I'm drifting!

[Old Fashioned]

I'll second that Ken. Just one trained man with an M14 would have made those pirates wish they had never left land. Makes you wonder when these ship owners are going to wake up to the reality of the situation and adjust their policies accordingly.

[Rich-D]

I received this via e-mail from Vikz of m1911.org I cannot confirm the authenticity however it is a good read. I edited out a sexual comment and a long paragraph on geography.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Long..but worth the read.

> The following came from a retired, but still well connected
> Navy Captain.
> It apparently came from an Annapolis alumni blog.
.
>
> His name is removed at his request. I will leave it to
> the Class powers-that-be to determine to which
> "forum" this should be placed. I am certain all of our classmates
> will find this extremely informative and proud of our NAVY
> troops at sea....as I am. This story needs to be heard! Nick)
>
> Subject: Re: Real story of Obama and the hostage
>
> The "real" story you have heard is not exactly
> the way I heard it, and
> probably has a few political twists thrown in to stir the
> pot. Rather
> than me trying to correct it, I'll just tell you what
> I found out from
> my contacts at the Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC) Norfolk and at
> Special Operations Command (SOCOM) Tampa.
>
> First though, let me familiarize you with the
> "terrain."

> In Africa from Djibouti at the southern end of the Red Sea eastward
> through the Gulf of Aden around to Cape Guardafui at the easternmost
> tip of Africa (also known as "The Horn of Africa") is about a 600 nm
> transit before you stand out into the Indian Ocean. That transit is comparable in distance to that from the mouth of the Mississippi at New Orleans to the tip of Florida at Key West, except t he 600 nm over there is infested with Somalia pirates.

> Second, let me globally orient you. From our Naval Operating Base in Norfolk, VA, east across the Atlantic to North Africa, thence across the Med to Suez in Egypt, thence southward down the Red
> Sea to Djibouti at the Gulf of Aden, thence eastward and around Cape Guardafui at the easternmost tip of Africa, and thence southerly some 300 miles down the east cost of Somali out into the high seas othe Indian Ocean to the position of MV ALABAMA is a little more than 7,000 nm, and nine time-zones ahead of EST.

Hold that thought. A C-17 transport averaging a little better than 400 kts takes the best part of 18 hours to make that trip. In the evening darkness late Thursday night, a team of Navy SEALs from NSWC Norfolk parachuted from such a C-17 into the black waters
> (no refraction of light) of the Indian Ocean close-aboard to our 40,000 ton amphibious assault ship, USS BOXER (LHD 4), the flagship of our ESG (Expeditionary Strike Group) in the AOR (Area Of Responsibility, the Gulf of Aden). They not only parachuted in with all of their equipment, they had their own inflatable boats, RHIB's
> (Rigid Hull, Inflatable Boats) with them for over-water transport. They went into
> BOXER's landing dock, debarked, and were staged for the rescue Thursday night.
>
> And, let me comment on time. The SEAL's quick response, departing
> ready-alert in less than 4 hours from Norfolk, supposedly surprised
> POTUS's (President of the United States) staff and President Obama who
> was miffed not to get his "cops" there before the Navy. He reportedly
> questioned his staff, "Will 'my' FBI people get there before the Navy
> does?"
>
> It took the FBI almost 12 hours to put together a tam and
> get them packed-up for an "at sea" rescue. The FBI was trying to tell
> him that they are not practiced to do this, the Navy SEALs are. But,
> the president wanted the FBI there "to help, that is to carry out the
> Attorney General's (Obama's) orders to negotiate the release of Captain
> Phillips peacefully . . . because he apparently doesn't trust George W's
> military to carry out his "political guidance."
>
> The FBI's passenger jet took a little less than 14 hours at
> 500+ knots to get to Djibouti. BOXER'S helos picked
> them up and trans ported them out to the ship. The Navy SEALs
> were already there, staged, and ready to act before POTUS's FBI
> even arrived on board later that evening. Notably, the first request by
> the OSC (On Scene Commander) that early Friday morning to take the
> pirates out and save Captain Phillips was denied, to wit: "No, wait
> until 'my FBI people get there."
>
> Third, please consider a candid assessment of ability. First, the FBI snipers had never practiced shooting from a rolling, pitching, yawing, surging, swaying, heaving platform at a target such as a ship or a lifeboat on the high seas that is also
> pitching, yawing, surging, swaying, and heaving. However, navies have been
> doing this since Admiral Nelson trained"Marines" to shoot muskets from
> the ship's rigging. Ironically, he was killed at sea in HMS VICTORY at the Battle of Trafalgar by a French Marine rifleman who shot him from the rigging of the French ship that they were grappling alongside.
>
> Notably, when I was first training at USNA (US Naval Academy) in 1955, the Navy was doing it with a SATU (Small Arms Training Unit) based at our Little Creek amphibious base.
> These days Navy SEALs, in particular SEAL Team SIX, the
> "DevGru" based at NSWC at Little Creek, do that training daily to hone their skills.
> Shooting small arms from a ship is more of an accomplished
> "Art Form" than it is a practiced skill. When you are "in the bubble"
> and "in tune" with the harmonic motion , you find that through
> practice you are able to put three .308 slugs inside thehead of a
> quarter at 100 meters, in day or at night, or from behind a
> camouflaged net or a thin enclosure, such as a ship's superstructure
> bulkhead. Yes, we have the monocular scopes that can "see" heat and
> draw a bead on it.
>
>
> SEALs are absolutely expert at it . . . with movie clips
> to prove it.
> Okay, now try to imagine patrolling among the boats fishing everyday out on the Grand Banks off our New England coast and being called upon to respond to a distress call from GB; down around the waters between Florida and the Bahamas. Three points for you to consider here: (1)Time-Distance-Speed relationships for ships on the high seas, for instance, at a 25-knot SOA (Speed Of Advance), it takes 24 hours to make good 600 nm which is what the BAINBRIDGE did. (2) Fishermen work on the high
> seas, and (3) the best place to hide as a "fisherman" (pirate) is among other fishermen.
>
> Back to early Wednesday morning, 4/8/2009, the MV ALABAMA (Motor Vessel Container Ship) is at sea in the Indian Ocean about 300 miles off the (east) coast of Somalia en route to Mombassa,
> Kenya. Pirates in small boat start harassing her and threatening her with weapons.
> MV ALABAMA's captain sent out a distress call by radio and ordered his Engineer to shut down the engines as well as the ship's electrical generators, in our lingo, "Go dark and cold." =2 0He informed his
> crew by radio what was happening and ordered them to go to an out-of-the-way compartment and lock themselves in it, from the inside. He would stay in the pilot house to "negotiate"with the pirates.
>
> The pirates boarded, captured the Captain, and ordered hi to start the engines. He said he would order his Engineer to do so, and he called down to Engine Control on the internal communication system but got
> no answer, of course. The lead pirate ordered two of his four men to go down and find the engineer and get the engines started.
>
> Inside a ship without any lights is like the definition of dark. The advantage goes to the people who work and live there. They jumped the two pirates in a dark passageway. Both pirates lost their weapons, but
> one managed to scramble away. They tied up the other one, put tape over his mouth and a knife at his throat. Other members of the crew opened the drain cocks on the pirate's boat and cast it adrift. It foundered and sunk. The scrambling pirate made it back to the pilot house and told of his plight. The
> pirates took the Captain at gun point and told him to launch one of his motorized rescue boats (not a life boat which has no propulsion other than oars). As he was lowering the boat for them, the crew appeared with the captured pirate to negotiate a trade.
> The crew let their hostage go too soon, and the pirates kept the Captain. But, he purposefully had lowered the boat so it would jam. With the rescue boat jammed, the pirates jumped over to a
> lifeboat and released it as the captain jumped into the water. They fired at him to make him stop and grabbed him out of the water. Now, as night falls in the vastness of the Indian Ocean, we have a classic
> "Mexican"standoff, to wit: A life-boat without any means of propulsion except oars; and, a huge Motor Vessel Container Ship adrift with a crew that is not going to leave their captain behind. The pirates
> are enclosed under the lifeboat's shelter-covering holding the captain as their hostage. The crew is hunkered down in their huge ship waiting for the"posse" to arrive.
>
> After receiving MV ALABAMA'S distress call, the USS BAINBRIDGE (DDG96) was dispatched by the Expeditionary Strike Force Group commanderto respond to ALABAMA's distress call. At best
> sustainable speed, she arrived on scene in the darkness of that early Thursday morning. The arrival of the BAINBRIDGE, a darkened-ship without any lights to giveher away as she quietly and slowly arrived on scene, is described in a recorded interview with the Chief Engineer of MV ALABAMA. He said it
was something else ". . . to see the Navy slide in there like a greyhound!" He said as she slipped in closer, he could see the "Stars and Stripes" flying from her masthead. He got choked up saying it was the ". . .
proudest moment of my life." Phew! Let that sink in.
>
> Earlier in the day, one of the U.S. Navy's Maritime Patrol Aircraft, a fixed wing P3C, flew over to recon the scene. They dropped a buoy with a radio to the pirates so that theNavy's interpreter could talk with the pirates. When BAINBRIDGE arrived, the pirates thought the radio was a homing beacon device and
> threw it overboard. They wanted a satellite telephone, not a radio, so that they could call home for help. Remember now, they are fishermen, not "Rocket Scientists," so they don't know thatwe can intercept
satellite phone transmissions also.
>
> The MV ALABAMA provided them with a satellite phone and they immediately called back to "somebody" in Eyl, Somalia (now we know where you live) to come out and get them. The
"somebody" in Eyl said they would be out right away "with 54 hostages from other countries",
> and that they would be coming out in two of their pirated ships. The "somebody" in Eyl considered these pirates as just four more expendables, part of the overhead and cost of operation."
Anyway, the ESG will watch Eyl for any ships coming out. The Navy SEAL team, SEAL TEAM SIX, from NSWC briefed the On Scene Commander (40 year-old Naval Academy graduate, Commander
> Frank Castellano, the Commanding Officer of the BAINBRIDGE) on how they could rescue the Captain from the life boat with "Combat Swimmers". That plan was denied by the president because
> it put the Captain in danger and it meant killing the pirates.

After the FBI negotiators arrived on scene, they talked the pirates into sending their wounded man over for treatment Saturday morning. Later that afternoon, the SEALs sent over their RHIB with food and water, to recon the life boat, but the pirates shot at it.The SEALs could have taken them out then (for being fired upon), but the president denied the request again because the captain was not in "imminent danger." The FBI negotiators calmed the situation by informing the pirates of threatening weather as they could see storm
> clouds coming in from the horizon and offered to tow the life boat to shore. The pirates agreed as darkness approached and the BAINBRIDGE took them under tow in their wake at 30 meters . . . exactly 30 meters which is the precise distance the SEALs practice their shooting skills. With the lifeboat under tow, riding comfortably bow-down in BAINBRIDGE's wake-wave ("rooster tail"), it had a 17-second period of harmonic motion. At the end of every half-period (8.5seconds), it was "steady on" as it changed direction. Thelight-enhanced (infra-red heat) monocular scopes on the SEALs' .308 caliber Mark 11 Mod 0 H&K suppressor fitted sniper rifles easily imaged their target very clearly. Pirates in a life boat at 30-meters could becompared to fish in a barrel. All that would be necessary was to take out the Plexiglas window so that it would not deflect thetrajectory of the high velocity .308 rounds. So, one sniper with a wad-cutter round (a flaxen sabot) would take out the window a split second before the other three fired their kill shots with no change in the sight-picture, just the window being blown out, clean.
>
> Now, the president's "whiz kids" knew aswell as the Navy hierarchy, including the CO of the BAINBRIDGE and the CO of SEAL TEAMSIX, that it is the law under Article 19 of Appendix L in the "Convention of the High Seas" that the Commanding Officer of a US Ship on the high seas is obligated to respond to distress signals from any flagged ship (US or otherwise) and to protect the life and property thereof when it is deemed to be in IMMINENT DANGER. So, in the final analysis, it would be Cmdr
Castellano's call as to "Imminent Danger," and that he alone was obligated (duty bound) to act accordingly.

> Got the picture?
>
> At first light
> from the east) on Easter Sunday morning,
> the pirates saw they were being towed further out to sea (instead of
> westward toward land), and the wounded pirate demanded to be returned
> to the lifeboat. There would be NO more negotiations, and the four
> Navy SEAL snipers "in the bubble" went"unlock." The pirate holding
> Captain Philips raised hi s gun to his head, and IMMINENT DANGER was
> observed and noted in the Log as Cmdr. Castellano gave the classic
> order: WEAPONS RELEASED! I can hear the echo in myearpiece now, "On
> my count (from 8.5 seconds), 3, 2, 1, !" POP, BANG! Out went the
> window, followed by three simultaneous shots. The scoreboard
> flashed: "GAME OVER, GAME OVER-- NAVY 3, PIRATES 0!"
>
> I hope you found the above informative as it is best
> account I know. And please excuse me in that after more than 50 years, the
> Navy is still in me. I submit that AMERICA is going to make acomeback, and
> more than likely it'll be on the back of our cherished youth serving
> with honor in our military. So, let's Look Up, Get Up, and Never Give Up!
>
> God Bless Our Troops, and GOD SAVE AMERICA!
>
> XXXXX, USNA Class of 1959, Dickinson, Texas.

[d90king]

As Mark LaRue says "God bless our troops.... Especially our snipers!

It is above my office door and has gotten surprisingly positive responses from my customers who have seen it.

[Pappy]

One shot..One kill....http://www.comicguide.net/images/smilies/sniper.gif

[kenhwind]

Seems to me that Mr. POTUS knew what our NAVY would do.
And of course those of us that know history know a bout the "to the shores of Tripoli" and why it is a Marine Corp tradition.

[Rich-D]

Gun Contol on the High Seas, is hitting your intended pirate! :appld:

Rich

[d90king]

Gun Contol on the High Seas, is hitting your intended pirate! :appld:

Rich
We missed one... I assume he was unarmed!

[Rich-D]

Pirates in route to attack a French Navy Ship!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,518788,00.html

Rich

[d90king]

Hmm, not sure why they fired "warning shots" ...

[Pappy]

"The helicopter fired two warning shots to stop the three boats from fleeing and within minutes the 11 pirates had surrendered."

I guess they don't believe in shoot first and ask questions later...... ;)

[d90king]

I guess they don't believe in shoot first and ask questions later......


Fish food comes to mind. We do have a food chain to make sure is fed and healthy.

[BRSmith]

"I guess they don't believe in shoot first and ask questions later...... "
This was the French Navy... we should be amazed they fired at all.... :p

[Pappy]

Wait a minute....was it the pirates or the French that surrendered?????

[d90king]

Wait a minute....was it the pirates or the French that surrendered?????
Now that was funny Pappy...

[kenhwind]

Well! At the least French fired first, Barack would have surrendered to 4 pirates, except the Seals were there, and the FBI had no jurisdiction, but the NAVY did.

[daveohno]

The French are surprsing me lately. Let's see, who has more guts, President Obama or the President of France? Mr. Obama seems to fret over things like Mr. Carter did. I don't believe he will be decisive in a tight spot. I believe he is more worried about how things look than doing what is right. All flash, style and utterly lacking in any useful substance.

[Rich-D]

"NATO does not have a detainment policy. The warship must follow its national law," he said.

Full Story: http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSLI11637320090418

Rich

[Rich-D]

The fact that Gun Free Zones cause havoc for unarmed honest people is catching on!

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/11/arming-sailors/

Rich

[Pappy]

From the Washington Times!!!!....looks like they have woken up and are smelling the coffee.......

[cravistaz]

One shot..One kill....

[Rich-D]

Maersk Alabama repels 2nd pirate attack with guns!

The same ship that pirates hijacked last April and took ship captain Richard Phillips hostage, holding him at gunpoint in a lifeboat for five days. Navy SEAL sharpshooters freed Phillips while killing three pirates in a daring nighttime attack.
Full Article ( http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091118/ap_on_re_af/piracy)